tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9192597712746432631.post6967791684039484618..comments2024-03-09T09:06:35.288+00:00Comments on Notes from Two Scientific Psychologists: Help with a lay summary of my throwing researchAndrewhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16732977871048876430noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9192597712746432631.post-31305959695002501082013-12-11T00:26:43.335+00:002013-12-11T00:26:43.335+00:00Mammoths. Shorten next bit? Nowadays more about su...Mammoths. Shorten next bit? Nowadays more about success or failure at sports. We know about throwing action itself, not what generates it. ('Produce a throw' in lay terms would still be action/result, as in a throw of 60m, but also biomech #3 http://chatt.hdsb.ca/~campanarom/FOV1-000EE03C/FOV1-000EE042/Biomechanical%20Principles%20for%20Sport%20Application.pdf?FCItemID=S0A123277<br />Anyway, the info comes together in the throw. What fascinates me is it's an opportunity to unlock the secrets of an ability that captures the moment humans began to outstrip the competition. How we began to interact with our environment in a more distinctive way. What work our brains needed to be capable of. How we arrived at this stage in evolution - even supporting language development. ('Even' because you're lobbing this in from nowhere.) Interesting not just to scientists, but also, etc.<br />Hope this piques you to 1 or 2 more tweaks. Actually, I prefer cricket to football.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9192597712746432631.post-22174958316279226242013-12-10T11:09:38.904+00:002013-12-10T11:09:38.904+00:00A-level is actually the last year of UK high schoo...A-level is actually the last year of UK high school, not the skill of the student :)<br /><br />I've added some detail about the research itself; a lot of that is in other parts of the application so I'm trying not to over-duplicate effort. If this was the only information people saw I would need more details, but hopefully I would have more than 2500 chars :)Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16732977871048876430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9192597712746432631.post-45736211380880006712013-12-09T19:00:03.993+00:002013-12-09T19:00:03.993+00:00Andrew, building off your last comment... I'm ...Andrew, building off your last comment... I'm not sure what it is, exactly, you are proposing to study. I would want to see this much more explicit (especially as an A-rank science student). <br /><br />I would cut the story in half (I actually like the somewhat arbitrary, but very familiar example). I would elaborate us much as possible on "there are so many unanswered questions from so many different disciplines (e.g. psychology, neuroscience, evolutionary biology)"<br /><br />Neuroscience is sexy, evolutionary biology is sexy. Nothing before that sentence told me you are doing cool and innovative neuroscience and evolutionary biology.<br /><br />Given the space, I would avoid subtlety, and make sure people know how special they are when they read it: "This situation seems simple, because your body and brain have been honed by recent evolutionary pressures to make throwing something that humans are uniquely good at. Despite our knowing quite a bit about the movements that make throwing work, we know very little about how bodies and brains interact with the world to achieve such ends, and even less about how people are so good at anticipating their efforts (i.e., by picking appropriate objects to throw in different ways). Eric Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17412168482569793996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9192597712746432631.post-76237573973351524552013-12-09T10:02:29.895+00:002013-12-09T10:02:29.895+00:00The unique angle is this bit (still not popping ob...The unique angle is this bit (still not popping obviously!)<br /><i>Thanks to research in sports, we know a lot about what throwing looks like when it happens. What we don’t know is how a skilled thrower produces that throw in the first place.</i><br /><br />This work is about control - how we choose which instance of a throw that suits the current task. The Hawks post is talking about the biomechanics stuff (very cool, but we're the next step). <br /><br />Spears and balls differ in their dynamics but the basic idea remains the same. <br /><br />I keep the two abstracts distinct mostly as a way to get more information into the proposal as a whole! It also shows I'm taking the lay version seriously; not just editing the technical version with simpler words. <br /><br />Kicking a football is next on my list! It's another example of crossing a distance by generating a projectile motion. the target affordances remain the same, but the required action is very different - very cool crossover of research here.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16732977871048876430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9192597712746432631.post-69774572372155070232013-12-09T09:54:17.217+00:002013-12-09T09:54:17.217+00:00Fair point. I was trying to end it in line with th...Fair point. I was trying to end it in line with the section guidance, and I wasn't happy with that. Any ideas, anyone?Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16732977871048876430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9192597712746432631.post-58347631011764226352013-12-09T09:53:32.214+00:002013-12-09T09:53:32.214+00:00I've been thinking about this; the thing I lik...I've been thinking about this; the thing I like about throwing by the lake is that it's such a common experience, and it is the best example of a task that contains all the elements:<br /><br />-Most sports have set objects, so picking the right one to throw isn't an issue<br />-Not everyone plays or cares about sports<br /><br />So when I say 'one thing you have to do is pick the right object' people can refer to the very strong feeling you get when you find the good stone, etc. My hunch is that this story (tweaked) does the exposition work I need for the reasons you lay out. <br /><br />What if I fixed the segue; not 'this is fairly ordinary' to 'this is actually all pretty amazing'?Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16732977871048876430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9192597712746432631.post-45527999346624810452013-12-06T19:01:46.904+00:002013-12-06T19:01:46.904+00:00Very much lay comments follow!
You could argue kic...Very much lay comments follow!<br />You could argue kicking a football could be of more interest to more people? (Not sure other creatures can do that, either.)<br />If you're talking about ancient throwing, how far do you have to go back so it was hefting a stone and not balancing a spear, e.g. http://www.news.com.au/technology/science/stoneage-steve-jobs-who-invented-stone-throwing-spears-was-not-even-a-human-say-scientists/story-fnjwl2dr-1226760914934 ? (Although I'd imagine a power throw over distance is similar.)<br />Can you relate the scientific abstract and lay summary more closely?<br />How does what you're doing differ from the research using a 3D camera system on top baseball pitchers discussed here: http://johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews/behavior/throwing-roach-evolution-2013.html ?<br />Need to have more of a feel for your unique angle on this.<br />Thanks for the chance to comment and good luck with it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9192597712746432631.post-75027666543240601402013-12-06T16:44:40.679+00:002013-12-06T16:44:40.679+00:00I would delete the last sentence ("It's r...I would delete the last sentence ("It's rare..."), as it doesn't actually say anything and therefore ends your message on a lame note -- but other than that it's great.William Skaggshttp://weskaggs.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9192597712746432631.post-5125264181480174662013-12-05T19:59:54.940+00:002013-12-05T19:59:54.940+00:00Pedant alert: that would be "try TO hit...&qu...Pedant alert: that would be "try TO hit..." not "try AND hit", unless you really mean that trying is different from doing.John R. Vokeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03822243132435056442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9192597712746432631.post-72238986578093214912013-12-05T14:11:33.713+00:002013-12-05T14:11:33.713+00:00*flexes fingers*
The story is an outstanding way...*flexes fingers* <br /><br />The story is an outstanding way to start - but then you call it an odd and straightforward thing to study. "Here's a fun, meaningless thing that happens, and what kind of dope would care? Me!" You'd be more persuasive if you chose a story with an important, rather than arbitrary, goal. When (esp in modern life) are the stakes high when someone throws something? The story could make your argument for you and save you loads of characters.<br /><br />If the people in the story struggle explicitly with the various aspects of throwing that make it interesting, that carries a lot of expository load for you. Then all you have to do is point out: look at all the pieces of the puzzle, a, b, and c. Or: look at all the different information that's important and how it gets put to use!<br /><br />David and Goliath springs to mind (jumping on the Gladwell train without talking about any of the things he talks about); you can just conveniently overlook the slingshot and make it a throw instead. One possibility.<br /><br />The juxtaposition of ancient-human-ability-meets-modern-research-technology is an exciting bit.<br /><br />Never waste characters on "very."<br /><br />Basically, if you were out of time, this would be swell. If you have time, you can find a story that does more work for you, which will make it more compelling. If I were writing it, I'd make a list of all the times when throwing Really Matters, then I'd make a list of all the challenges throwing presents and make up a story where a thrower has to confront all of them in order to Save The Day, or whatever.enagoskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13003648108116024642noreply@blogger.com